Good
In fact the discussion is lively! But there is one contribution that I liked to give and beginning with this question: When making a self-paced learning, each learner is not likely to align with those who are at a pace similar to yours and with similar interests?
Otherwise you see, with all the provision of Web 2.0 tools, each one tends to add to those who are closest to their interests and objectives. Despite the endless possibilities, we select a few. Why? Could it be because we are naturally inclined to participate in groups such as our natural environment, and factors in isolation tend to be us uncomfortable?
Further, the self-paced learning is very good, but has limits. In self-learning makes sense, but it has limitations: lack of motivation, lack of help from the inter-action, and something very important, the peer review. Here we can see that the self-paced can not be taken to the extreme, but understood within its limits.
Finally, when the girls talk about the advantage of self-paced learnig, so I realized, come to recognize that the group is essential. Could it be that the e-learning will increasingly focus on the rhythm of the group, but recognizing and valuing the individuality of each participant? Otherwise, the learning will seem a self-study.
[] L
Hi Luís!
We believe in the need of getting connected but that does not necessarily imply that the learner needs to follow a group-based learning pace. The learner learns through connections, possible by the rise of web 2.0 tools but still, this is done at his own pace. he doesn't have to be integrated in a group where all the members have the same timings and deadlines in order to learn through connections.
Why do you say there's a lack of motivation when doing a self-paced learning course? we have come up to some advantages of this kind of courses to the learner's motivation in previous posts. These kind of courses, for sure, lack interaction, but interaction with peers, not with material or the teacher. In fact these learners get much closer to the teacher and the teacher is able to give the support according to the learner's needs, taking into account only that learner.
Which doesn't happen when a teacher has to support a group with different kinds of learners. So how can you value individuality this way? If the groups are taken into account as a whole and not as the parts (meaning the learners) that form it?
And not speaking of conflicts that may occur within the group, even segregation. One individual can feel intimidated or not comfortable with asking questions or sharing his knowledge with the others? how can this lead to a successful learning path if each learner doesn't solely focus on his own learning?
The girls!
quinta-feira, 12 de novembro de 2009
Activity 4 - Discussion - self-paced learning
Hello Marco!
We are replying to your last post but we decided to continue the dicussion under the topic discussion so we don't end up with a lot of open topics.
Reading your post makes us wonder about some of the things you mention.
You say that the facilitator may provide information about how the participants will work as a group... that is a very passive way of organisation for the learners. And then you add that the role of the facilitator may change in order to correspond to the group's purposes and goals... but are the group goals (when it comes to learning and skills development) the goals of each learner in their individuality?? We don't think so!
"The consensus among group theorists is that smaller groups, those of six or less, tend to be more cohesive and productive than larger groups." So you are basically saying that the fewer we are, working together, the best are our achievements. In that way, we dare to say that one learner on his own works much better and is more successful than if that same learner is part of a group.
Another thing: "we consider that group members regularly meet to study together"... it means that all of them need to adjust their lives, their priorities according to everybody else's availability. we see a lot of dependence there which is not the purpose of online education!
"The group tries to ensure that all members clearly understand the important points". So, even if 1 of them already understood all the points, that fast-paced learner has to wait until the other colleagues get there as well! how does that improve the learning process and keeps the motivation on a high level?
the girls!!! :)
We are replying to your last post but we decided to continue the dicussion under the topic discussion so we don't end up with a lot of open topics.
Reading your post makes us wonder about some of the things you mention.
You say that the facilitator may provide information about how the participants will work as a group... that is a very passive way of organisation for the learners. And then you add that the role of the facilitator may change in order to correspond to the group's purposes and goals... but are the group goals (when it comes to learning and skills development) the goals of each learner in their individuality?? We don't think so!
"The consensus among group theorists is that smaller groups, those of six or less, tend to be more cohesive and productive than larger groups." So you are basically saying that the fewer we are, working together, the best are our achievements. In that way, we dare to say that one learner on his own works much better and is more successful than if that same learner is part of a group.
Another thing: "we consider that group members regularly meet to study together"... it means that all of them need to adjust their lives, their priorities according to everybody else's availability. we see a lot of dependence there which is not the purpose of online education!
"The group tries to ensure that all members clearly understand the important points". So, even if 1 of them already understood all the points, that fast-paced learner has to wait until the other colleagues get there as well! how does that improve the learning process and keeps the motivation on a high level?
the girls!!! :)
Activity 4 - Discussion - self-paced learning
Good night Ladies,
Thank you for starting the discussion and for giving us a few good arguments to defend group paced learning...
First all, quantity is not quality. We can not measure the relevance of our posts by the quantity.... The match ends only when the referee blows the whistle.
So if you say 2-0, we must say...wait and see...
Second. How can you defend self-paced learning when we are doing a great and typical group paced learning activity? If this discussion was self-paced how many weeks could last this activity. Would it be as effective as we are doing? We don't believe it could work as well...
Third. You say that "students should be responsable for their own pace" and that "no one is making any pressure with deadlines". People learn with each other, in group. Teacher should set deadlines or otherwise a course that should last 6 months could last 2 years. How many teachers could deal with this clasroom ?
Finally. We must agree. "the new means of communication brought many possibilities to online distance education". The problem of self-paced is interaction. It doesn't promote group working. People can, as you say, "download", "fulfill their assignments", "access to a bigger amount of information", but what about interaction. How can they build their knowledge in a group ? For example, by now, George Siemens and Stephen Downes are giving the Second Edition of the course "CCK - Connectivism & Connective Knowledge". All the content, since the beggining of the course is on the net. It's true that is a course that can be made at our own pace, but if don't interact with the others learners in group paced learning, we are exclusive passive learners. We won't be able to contribute to build colective knowledge.
Men rules...
Hello dear Paulo!
Alright... You are making group-based learning look very pretty but it is not that perfect!
You are right, quantity is not quality but someone had to start! ;-)
Second, yes, we are doing the activity in group because we are a team and we decided to do it that way. And because of this specific experience we can say that group paced learning is very difficult to do. We have been suffering all the the effects of doing the activity this way. It is not easy at all! We have to meet, talk, discuss, use collaborative tools so in the end we have a post that we are all happy with. Whereas if we were doing this same activity individually, each of us working at our own pace, our advances would be way quicker, we could look for information, read it, pick the interesting parts and then write a post without discussing it with the other team members. So the rhythm of this discussion would flow faster. but we like difficult paths so we decided to do it in group! :)
Third, if a learner is motivated enough to follow a self-paced course, they won't take ages to finish it! If they do take that long time, it means they really made the right choice because they couldn't follow a course with strict deadlines and structure. You are applying the word "classroom" here... but if we are talking about self-paced learning we can't say that! if 2 learners can start the course at the same time and finish it in different timings then it shouldn't be called classroom in the traditional meaning of that word. Also because learners can have the possibility of starting the course whenever they want to... so, are we talking about classrooms here? Isn't it self-paced? because the way group-based works is very difficult to start a course if we suddenly see it and want to do it but... :( sadly it has already started... and we need to wait for next year's schedule... Does this waiting process bring any motivation to someone that was so excited about learning new things?
And you talk about the teachers dealing with self-paced learners... and dealing with so many different learners, at the same time, with so many different paces and learning styles? Isn't that difficult?
Fourth, "show me the proves" :) People can learn individually, without having to be in a group. The tools that Internet provides allow us to do that. More and more we have the possibility of staying home and learn with no limits! Someone that embraces a self-paced learning course doesn't want to be ruled by the teacher's pace. And just because you learn at your own pace it doesn't mean you are passive! it is exactly the opposite! You are VERY active in your learning process: having to choose you path, selecting material, doing research and being more and more independent. You end up having an even more active role in your own learning process than if you were doing it in a group. You get more involved and this brings along motivation and interest for what you're doing.
Last, "Men rules"... only in your tiny limited world }-]
Thank you for starting the discussion and for giving us a few good arguments to defend group paced learning...
First all, quantity is not quality. We can not measure the relevance of our posts by the quantity.... The match ends only when the referee blows the whistle.
So if you say 2-0, we must say...wait and see...
Second. How can you defend self-paced learning when we are doing a great and typical group paced learning activity? If this discussion was self-paced how many weeks could last this activity. Would it be as effective as we are doing? We don't believe it could work as well...
Third. You say that "students should be responsable for their own pace" and that "no one is making any pressure with deadlines". People learn with each other, in group. Teacher should set deadlines or otherwise a course that should last 6 months could last 2 years. How many teachers could deal with this clasroom ?
Finally. We must agree. "the new means of communication brought many possibilities to online distance education". The problem of self-paced is interaction. It doesn't promote group working. People can, as you say, "download", "fulfill their assignments", "access to a bigger amount of information", but what about interaction. How can they build their knowledge in a group ? For example, by now, George Siemens and Stephen Downes are giving the Second Edition of the course "CCK - Connectivism & Connective Knowledge". All the content, since the beggining of the course is on the net. It's true that is a course that can be made at our own pace, but if don't interact with the others learners in group paced learning, we are exclusive passive learners. We won't be able to contribute to build colective knowledge.
Men rules...
Hello dear Paulo!
Alright... You are making group-based learning look very pretty but it is not that perfect!
You are right, quantity is not quality but someone had to start! ;-)
Second, yes, we are doing the activity in group because we are a team and we decided to do it that way. And because of this specific experience we can say that group paced learning is very difficult to do. We have been suffering all the the effects of doing the activity this way. It is not easy at all! We have to meet, talk, discuss, use collaborative tools so in the end we have a post that we are all happy with. Whereas if we were doing this same activity individually, each of us working at our own pace, our advances would be way quicker, we could look for information, read it, pick the interesting parts and then write a post without discussing it with the other team members. So the rhythm of this discussion would flow faster. but we like difficult paths so we decided to do it in group! :)
Third, if a learner is motivated enough to follow a self-paced course, they won't take ages to finish it! If they do take that long time, it means they really made the right choice because they couldn't follow a course with strict deadlines and structure. You are applying the word "classroom" here... but if we are talking about self-paced learning we can't say that! if 2 learners can start the course at the same time and finish it in different timings then it shouldn't be called classroom in the traditional meaning of that word. Also because learners can have the possibility of starting the course whenever they want to... so, are we talking about classrooms here? Isn't it self-paced? because the way group-based works is very difficult to start a course if we suddenly see it and want to do it but... :( sadly it has already started... and we need to wait for next year's schedule... Does this waiting process bring any motivation to someone that was so excited about learning new things?
And you talk about the teachers dealing with self-paced learners... and dealing with so many different learners, at the same time, with so many different paces and learning styles? Isn't that difficult?
Fourth, "show me the proves" :) People can learn individually, without having to be in a group. The tools that Internet provides allow us to do that. More and more we have the possibility of staying home and learn with no limits! Someone that embraces a self-paced learning course doesn't want to be ruled by the teacher's pace. And just because you learn at your own pace it doesn't mean you are passive! it is exactly the opposite! You are VERY active in your learning process: having to choose you path, selecting material, doing research and being more and more independent. You end up having an even more active role in your own learning process than if you were doing it in a group. You get more involved and this brings along motivation and interest for what you're doing.
Last, "Men rules"... only in your tiny limited world }-]
Activity 4 - Discussion - self-paced learning
Hi again!
In self paced learning the teacher plays an important role: he guides the learner allowing him to take the most important decisions of his pathway. Also, the technological tools that are available (as we mentioned in our previous post) give the learner more flexibility in choosing his own path.
George Siemens (2004)* in his theory of Connectivism talks about the use of social tools that not only give the learners the possibility of being independent, and doing things at the pace they choose to do, but those tools also allow the learner to get connected to other people, to learn from and with them. The learner learns by searching information but also through connections. This way, the learner is promoting a continual learning path, not only getting new information but, the most important, knowing how to search for information in the network society. The contacts the learner gets will allow him to continually update his knowledge. This leads to more motivation and the learner ends up being more focused in the learning process.
From the teacher/tutor perspective, in a self paced learning course, more attention can be provided to those learners who need it, being able to adjust the process to the needs of each of them.
Some distance education courses combine traditional methods with online courses, but self-paced courses bring out students autonomy and independence. This way, students may start their activity at different times, following their own pace, towards their interests, in order to follow a learning path and develop certain skills. Anderson, Annad and Wark (2005) ** summarize this idea with the following flowchart:
Figure 1: A proposed model of learner paced learning support
The Ladies
Ladies 2 - Gentlemen 0 :-D
PS - Again, we wrote this post together using the same tools mentioned in the previous one.
* In Siemens, George (2004). Connectivism: A Learning Theory for the Digital Age. Available at http://www.elearnspace.org/Articles/connectivism.htm
** In Andersen, T; Annand, D & Wark, N. (2005). The serach for learning community in learner paced distance education: Or, 'Having your cake and eating it, too!'. Australasian journal of Educational Technology, 21(2), 222-241. Available at http://www.ascilite.org.au/ajet/ajet21/anderson.html
In self paced learning the teacher plays an important role: he guides the learner allowing him to take the most important decisions of his pathway. Also, the technological tools that are available (as we mentioned in our previous post) give the learner more flexibility in choosing his own path.
George Siemens (2004)* in his theory of Connectivism talks about the use of social tools that not only give the learners the possibility of being independent, and doing things at the pace they choose to do, but those tools also allow the learner to get connected to other people, to learn from and with them. The learner learns by searching information but also through connections. This way, the learner is promoting a continual learning path, not only getting new information but, the most important, knowing how to search for information in the network society. The contacts the learner gets will allow him to continually update his knowledge. This leads to more motivation and the learner ends up being more focused in the learning process.
From the teacher/tutor perspective, in a self paced learning course, more attention can be provided to those learners who need it, being able to adjust the process to the needs of each of them.
Some distance education courses combine traditional methods with online courses, but self-paced courses bring out students autonomy and independence. This way, students may start their activity at different times, following their own pace, towards their interests, in order to follow a learning path and develop certain skills. Anderson, Annad and Wark (2005) ** summarize this idea with the following flowchart:
Figure 1: A proposed model of learner paced learning support
The Ladies
Ladies 2 - Gentlemen 0 :-D
PS - Again, we wrote this post together using the same tools mentioned in the previous one.
* In Siemens, George (2004). Connectivism: A Learning Theory for the Digital Age. Available at http://www.elearnspace.org/Articles/connectivism.htm
** In Andersen, T; Annand, D & Wark, N. (2005). The serach for learning community in learner paced distance education: Or, 'Having your cake and eating it, too!'. Australasian journal of Educational Technology, 21(2), 222-241. Available at http://www.ascilite.org.au/ajet/ajet21/anderson.html
Activity 4 - Discussion - self-paced learning
Hello Gentlemen! :)
In distance education nowadays we hear a lot of discussion about self-paced learning or group based learning. There are some authors that defend that the distance students should evolve at their own pace and some others refer to a group of people, also referred to as peers, as a means to share expertise, experience in order to improve the learning process and make it more effective.
In our way of looking at distance learning, we undoubtedly trust the success of distance learning to the self-pace progression of every student.
Self-paced learning is directed by the individual, by each student in order to meet their personal learning goals. And don't think that when we talk about self-paced learning we are referring to individualized learning. Although both have the same meaning there are differences:
- in self-paced learning the student is who controls the pace of the learning process. For instance, 2 students may start a course on the same day but then, following their own study rhythms, they may finish it in different dates.
- in individualized learning, the learning process is individual, but it doesn't mean that it evolves according to the pace of the student: there might be some steps or points that the student has to reach at a certain time, specified in the course structure. Although the learning process is individual, the learning pace may be controlled by the teacher or tutor.
So, we consider that distance students should learn according to their own pace, as they are not dependent on a structure or pace specified by someone else (for instance, the teacher or tutor). They have their own lives and can organise themselves taking into account all their activities (work, family, studies). Students also feel more responsible for their learning process, because they know it depends on them and that no one is making any pressure with deadlines.
An important advantage is also the high level of interaction provided by this method. Students face a high degree of reflection and challenge in forums, discussions with a strong benefit that comes from learning from each other and not only from the tutor. Then, there are no distraction, but a high level of motivation, because these methods are applied at advanced stages and students are very focused on doing their tasks.
Another point to take into account is that in the last couple of years, the advances in technology and, therefore, the new means of communication brought many possibilities to online distance education. By learning at their own pace, students have the possibility to download learning materials, such as, videos, slides and so on in order to fulfill their assignments. All these materials are available at anytime, which implies that the students can look for them every time they want/need. The advance of technology brings without any questions the freedom, the context and the possibilities that self-paced learners need in order to accomplish their goals and being able to have access to a bigger amount of information in a short time period.
These are some basic aspects of self-paced learning, which we decided to start the discussion with.
Best regards,
The Ladies' team ;)
Maria Martins, Mónica Velosa, Sandra Brás and Sónia Valente
PS - this first post was written in group using gtalk and googledocs.
In distance education nowadays we hear a lot of discussion about self-paced learning or group based learning. There are some authors that defend that the distance students should evolve at their own pace and some others refer to a group of people, also referred to as peers, as a means to share expertise, experience in order to improve the learning process and make it more effective.
In our way of looking at distance learning, we undoubtedly trust the success of distance learning to the self-pace progression of every student.
Self-paced learning is directed by the individual, by each student in order to meet their personal learning goals. And don't think that when we talk about self-paced learning we are referring to individualized learning. Although both have the same meaning there are differences:
- in self-paced learning the student is who controls the pace of the learning process. For instance, 2 students may start a course on the same day but then, following their own study rhythms, they may finish it in different dates.
- in individualized learning, the learning process is individual, but it doesn't mean that it evolves according to the pace of the student: there might be some steps or points that the student has to reach at a certain time, specified in the course structure. Although the learning process is individual, the learning pace may be controlled by the teacher or tutor.
So, we consider that distance students should learn according to their own pace, as they are not dependent on a structure or pace specified by someone else (for instance, the teacher or tutor). They have their own lives and can organise themselves taking into account all their activities (work, family, studies). Students also feel more responsible for their learning process, because they know it depends on them and that no one is making any pressure with deadlines.
An important advantage is also the high level of interaction provided by this method. Students face a high degree of reflection and challenge in forums, discussions with a strong benefit that comes from learning from each other and not only from the tutor. Then, there are no distraction, but a high level of motivation, because these methods are applied at advanced stages and students are very focused on doing their tasks.
Another point to take into account is that in the last couple of years, the advances in technology and, therefore, the new means of communication brought many possibilities to online distance education. By learning at their own pace, students have the possibility to download learning materials, such as, videos, slides and so on in order to fulfill their assignments. All these materials are available at anytime, which implies that the students can look for them every time they want/need. The advance of technology brings without any questions the freedom, the context and the possibilities that self-paced learners need in order to accomplish their goals and being able to have access to a bigger amount of information in a short time period.
These are some basic aspects of self-paced learning, which we decided to start the discussion with.
Best regards,
The Ladies' team ;)
Maria Martins, Mónica Velosa, Sandra Brás and Sónia Valente
PS - this first post was written in group using gtalk and googledocs.
segunda-feira, 9 de novembro de 2009
learning objects - review - Cooperative Freedom by monicavelosa
Mónica choose a different way to emphasize some points on cooperative learning. After a dialogue with a friend, Sandra, the author starts to explain the Hexagon of cooperative freedom, synthesizing that it combines individual freedom with meaningful freedom. Then, prof. Morten talks about several theories of distance education – authors like Moore, Peters, Holmberg are reminded –, to end referring that freedom is as important as cooperation, for Distance Education student. Prof. Morten also says that Cooperative Freedom has six points: time, space, rhythm, media, access and curriculum.
With a very informal tool, the theory of Cooperative Freedom is presented by the authors, Mónica and Helena, pointing out some essential ideas.
I think that, since toonlet is a very synthetic way of communication, only some aspects of the theories are mentioned. Though both works refer the same theory, these toonlets present a different approach; the first one imagine a possible conversation between students to emphasize how collaboration is important to students. In addition, one can also state that this work points out that community members must be urged and stimulated to contribute to the community and benefit from it. The second work chooses another approach, mentioning authors that systematized fundamental ideas on distance education and then explaining six points of freedom.
When I choose these two learning objects, I did it because I found out that this tool is very interesting. The students that present theory of Cooperative Freedom do it explaining important aspects of this learning theory. I also chose these works because they emphasize different views, on cooperative freedom. Both learning object present cooperative learning in a very clear and concise way, meeting the purpose of this unit, activity 3, and I enjoyed reading both.
Congratulations to Mónica and Helena for your work
Lurdes Martins - Link
With a very informal tool, the theory of Cooperative Freedom is presented by the authors, Mónica and Helena, pointing out some essential ideas.
I think that, since toonlet is a very synthetic way of communication, only some aspects of the theories are mentioned. Though both works refer the same theory, these toonlets present a different approach; the first one imagine a possible conversation between students to emphasize how collaboration is important to students. In addition, one can also state that this work points out that community members must be urged and stimulated to contribute to the community and benefit from it. The second work chooses another approach, mentioning authors that systematized fundamental ideas on distance education and then explaining six points of freedom.
When I choose these two learning objects, I did it because I found out that this tool is very interesting. The students that present theory of Cooperative Freedom do it explaining important aspects of this learning theory. I also chose these works because they emphasize different views, on cooperative freedom. Both learning object present cooperative learning in a very clear and concise way, meeting the purpose of this unit, activity 3, and I enjoyed reading both.
Congratulations to Mónica and Helena for your work
Lurdes Martins - Link
learning objects - review - Cooperative Freedom by monicavelosa
Hi, Mónica
I have just read your work and I liked it a lot. You used “toonlet” which I find very attractive because it allows you to explain a concept by means of very powerful cartoon-tool idea. I think it was a good choice because you were able to be very effective in explaining the theory of cooperative freedom. This way catches the attention and you were synthetic and organized in the presentation of the concept.
Well done,
Pedro Teixeira - Link
I have just read your work and I liked it a lot. You used “toonlet” which I find very attractive because it allows you to explain a concept by means of very powerful cartoon-tool idea. I think it was a good choice because you were able to be very effective in explaining the theory of cooperative freedom. This way catches the attention and you were synthetic and organized in the presentation of the concept.
Well done,
Pedro Teixeira - Link
sexta-feira, 6 de novembro de 2009
UNIT 1 – ACTIVITY 3: Review on two learning objects
UNIT 1 – ACTIVITY 3: Review on two learning objects
1º Learning Object: “Cooperative Freedom v4”
by Rosalina Nunes
2º Learning Object: “Cooperative Freedom 0001”
by Pedro Teixeira
I selected these two objects due to their concision. I would first like to congratulate my colleagues for their work. I think they did two good learning objects on the Theory of Cooperative Freedom. The purpose of them is to answer the question "Cooperative Freedom - what is it?”
The first object:
The first object is simple in its content and structure. This object is divided into
four parts:
1. It refers to adult learners demands in online education such as::
a) Individual flexibility
b) Freedom and
c) belong to Learning community.
2. States that cooperative learning allows the addition of these features.
3. Indicates how to have cooperative learning.
4. Tells us who is Morten Flate.
Rosalina is careful to associate some images that are related with written words and fundamental freedom in the theory of cooperative freendom. One thing to improve would be detail further the definition of the theory of cooperative freedom. Rosalina in her learning object makes no reference to the distinction between individual learning, collaborative learning and cooperative learning. She only states that students seek certain features in online learning.
The importance, in my opinion, of such distinction is due to the fact that many people confuse collaborative learning with cooperative learning. Hence it is essential to find out the difference between both. It is essential to understand that difference so we can fully understand the theory of cooperative freedom.
The Second Object:
I really enjoyed the learning object made by Pedro Teixeira, since he was able to explain the theory of cooperative freedom in a simple but complete way. Pedro starts explaining the different forms of learning and explains each one in a simple and accurate way. Therefore, the video enables those who are viewing it to tell the difference between cooperative and collaborative learning. After getting notion of those concepts, people watching the video will be able to understand the difference between them and also that the addition of them is not easy. Despite not being easy, as Peter well tells us, that arrangement is made possible through a learning environment that can offer simultaneously individual flexibility, freedom and the possibility of belonging to a learning community.
I have to mention the good fitting of images in the texts referred to therein. A possible improvement is the colors chosen. Green and orange is a little blurry for anyone viewing the video.
Again, congratulations to colleagues for the work accomplished.
Mónica velosa
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